THE TRAGIC FATE OF THE ROMA PEOPLE: Here is how they destroyed a nation for centuries!

Meeting with Dr. Rajko Djuric is a special event in anyone's life.

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For those of you who do not know, and Serbia is full of them, Dr. Rajko Djuric studied philosophy, theology and physical chemistry in Belgrade, where he later received his doctorate in philosophy and sociology. In addition to his core "craft", Djuric is a poet, essayist and journalist, he was editor of the culture section in the daily Politika. He has published 34 books, with majority in poetry, and is the winner of the world's largest prize for literature. He has worked on probably our best film of all time, "Happy Gypsies," (Skupljacima Perja) and co-wrote the film "Time of the Gypsies" (Dom za Vesanje).

WHO IS BOTHERED BY THE ROMA PEOPLE? Once again, Roma huts were up in flames in Belgrade!

When it comes to activism for the rights of Roma people, who for no reason were terribly discriminated against throughout the world, including in Serbia, Djuric from 1981 to 1990 was secretary of the International Organization of Roma, and from 1990 to 2000, President of the organization. He contributed to this organization by becoming a member of the United Nations and helped the Roma be recognized as victims of the Holocaust with the right to reparations, to formulate a program of the Roma Decade and to establish a Department of Romology at numerous international universities.

Professor, generally little is known about the dark fate that the Roma people suffered after their arrival from India to Europe. The largest pogroms took place in the West, especially in Germany ...

To understand man, you have to know his history. The Germans have a belated nation, a nation that was formed late, and wanted to become the first among the nations. They wanted the German emperor to become the first in the western world. Luther, as a great educated man, wrote thesis's which he put to the church door, and was definitely a transition from Catholicism. For Germany, England and Switzerland this meant a major shift, a major breakthrough. They say that the Swiss Protestant faction was the most progressive, but Switzerland was never a big country, it could mean something on the map of Europe, and of course Germany was given to the role. There's a brilliant history of Germany, from the 16th to the 19th century, written by a German, unbelievable to man. It is the biggest, scariest criticism of the German, Germanism and this value system. How did the whole gamut of values ​​such as diligence, hard work, thrift arise? With three working and four whipping the whip. This lasted for 300 years. Then, even during the Bismarck, were gallows at each intersection. When they find someone else, and they do not report lost property office, they will be hanged. And that happened en masse. Now, the Roma do not fit into that world, because they have a different value system. As would say Tolstoy, "work among us Christians Slavs was punishment". Work, the work, but by its very name means that it is performed by a slave, not a man, in fact what it was in ancient Greece. And that, of course, it was the same with the Roma. For the Roma work, "Butiker" means to turn something, to turn stone ... Something worthless, useless. They have a different value system, which corresponds to an ancient Indian philosophy and religion. It is purely and strictly distinguish between pure and impure, in fact, when it etymologically decompose, between life and death, light and darkness. Those in the West were never understand, and the Germans of course, seeing in them people who are useless, will not work, make laws that allowed Rome to kill children, women, elderly ... to kill the Roma have even received awards. A friend of mine, a German historian, wrote a history of the persecution of Roma and Roma in Germany. It is a report that says: "I shot 28 Roma, of which many women and children. All that I cut off the head and put it in the bag. " Then the man goes on the counter of the municipality and receives a compensation fee for the decisions of the head of the Roma. As with us hunters when they received money for wolves.

Serbia makes evident progress in improving Roma people’s position, many changes still await

Romi u Francuskoj tokom osamdesetih godina prošlog veka. Foto: Wikimedia Commons/Yann

When did this all take place? During what period?

Around the 17th and 18th century. The enlightenment period. And did you know that the last "witch", which was burned down in Germany, was of Roma woman, and that this happened in 1928? So you have almost complete legal, spiritual, customary folksy structured relationship towards Roma, Jews, even long before Hitler came to power.

So there were already all the conditions for genocide against Jews and Gypsies that occurred during the Second World War ...

Of course.

Does what happened to Roma people in Germany at the time you're talking about can be characterized as genocide?

You know what, the first definition of genocide dates from 1933. It was given by a Jew, a lawyer, who said that genocide means complete destruction of a nation, its eradication, destruction of its perspective, its future. It is difficult from this point, which was later accepted by the United Nations, to define it as genocide. But in any case, they were furious persecutions and mass killings. For instance, in 1903 on a list of Roma who were listed and defined in the killing were even Roma from Serbia, who went to Germany to work temporarily. And then there were guest workers. Even then there were gastarbeiters that were notated, listed for liquidation. This was in Munich.

It was not the same everywhere in Germany, right?

Three provinces in Germany were those who gave the seal of German history, Bavaria and Saxony, Leipzig, and Prussia, and of course, Berlin. The militaristic Prussia. When I was in Berlin, I saw something interesting. When in Germany going into the subway, they say "the train is leaving, please, do not enter." In Berlin, no. Berlin says only "zuruck Me", ie. "Decline" stay back. So, instead of information, you have a command. It is the only province in Germany where cops go with dogs.

It is often heard that the Roma in the former Yugoslavia under Tito, had a good position, the best position in Europe, if not the world.

It was not all that good. To tell those who do not understand the process fully. Since I had the good fortune, or misfortune, to be among the first to deal with Roma rights at that time, I have to say that it was all very difficult in Yugoslavia. Tito was neutral. After he recounted to me by one of our diplomats, to Tito, faced with this problem, he said something like "my lord, now Gypsies demand their rights." But the most bitter opponents were Stane Dolenc, Croatian politicians and several Serbian politicians. This attitude towards the Roma is not guided by the Communist Party, but from the Socialist Alliance, where you had a tangle of sap, which is very rarely any smart people. I remember, from all of them, was a man from Valjevo, who said, "naturally, the Roman are people like us." There is refracted, as the focus of racism. I read a discussion about it, "do we give Roma a study group or chair." Well of course, then you have learned nothing about racism, if you give someone a priority in language, and yet you claim that your language is better, then it implicitly means that you claim that you are a better, more valuable person than the other man. Language has always been linked with thought, and thought with humanity, with the man himself. But many people do not understand. So in essence, Yugoslavia was not even close to ideal. But, I must say, it was better, in any case, in relation to the others. The Stalinists, for example, did not even want to hear, Russians still do not want to have it. The only ones who accepted it were Czechs and Slovaks, through Dubcek reforms.

Foto: Profimedia

Do they like Roma people in the Czech Republic?

Vaclav Havel loved them, for example. As he personally told me, his best friends in jail were Roma, who carried bags of cement instead of him. That where he started to like them. If he needed brandy, no one could find it other than Roma.

You studied philosophy in Belgrade, during the golden time of that department. Many later teachers studied at that particular time. Slobodan Žunjić, Mladen Kozomara ... And you learned from Veljko Korac, Mihailo Markovic, Miladin Životić ...

Veljko Korac unusually liked Roma people. His dad was a priest, everyone was a priest in his family. His dad baptized Roma people, was the godfather of the Roma. Mihailo Markovic taught me. We were good friends, but when he went to see Milosevic, he disgusted me. He told me then "come over, choose whether you want to be a minister or an ambassador." I told him "no, with the likes of Milosevic I do not want to be."

You believe Milosevic is a nationalist?

He was a fascist. I analyzed his speech and symbols. You have that sentence "Montenegro and Serbia, two peas in a pod." It was not his invention, Goebbels said that for Austria and Germany. And I will not say that he knew what Goebbels said, but the same man on the linguistic structure plan gives the same words, even the same sentence. That's the joke. Or that the greatest symbol in Serbian history is a forest, imagine. I have studied the history of the nation, I have never found it to be forest. But Elias Canetti put it so well, "the one who uses the symbol of the forest, will not destroy it without an axe". And so it was. Milosevic, unfortunately, is still alive. Just look at what is happening these days, remembering Operation Storm. And after that shameful fascist act of two fascists Tudjman and Milosevic, there are still those who hold Milosevic's picture. After all.

How did it happen that Mihailo Markovic went to see Slobodan Milosevic?

What is monstrous to many people. No one could fathom. Even Ljuba (Tadic), who was a great friend of his. Ironically, when it was a question of returning to college Michael, Mićuna and other Životić, who was a Roma, even though he hid it, I do not know whether you know that ...

I did not ...

So, Milosevic was an intermediary in their return to college. He asked Veljko Korac "Should we return everything." Veljko told him, "of course, everything." And Milosevic responded: "I do not agree with Mihailo Markovic returning. He is not interested in philosophy, he is interested in politics. " Beware, Milosevic says that. And it proved to be true. For he was the captain after the war. Something happened there after the war, and something that has a secret. Why did Mihailo after the attempted putsch flee to Moscow? To this day, it is a secret to many.

Foto: YouTube / Prostorni Aktivista

Professor, you fought for decades for the rights of Roma. What has changed since you began until today? In particular. Any progress?

Well, there is some progress, but barely. There is one theory, Hannah Arendt wrote it. We have overcome Stalinism, we know what Stalinism is. We have overcome totalitarianism, we know what is totalitarianism. And this so-called open society, which is so praised, they are very cleverly done. Under the banner of "open society" they opened the cages with tigers and lions. And they let the tigers and lions on the most helpless. And then, the result is zero. Because, look at the list. The biggest victims of all this are children, women and Roma. Those who have no power and authority. And when you see under the slogan "Open Society" let murderers, criminals of the worst kind, you've finished the job. Without it you have blood on their hands. Because there's a philosophical saying: "crime, even the worst crime is one that leaves no traces of blood." And here with the Roma, it was always the case. After the fall of the Berlin Wall, there is no European country after the fall of the Berlin Wall, that has not happened to this country moistened with tears of Roma or Roma blood. But no one mentioned and no one gives a damn about it. But it is proof that all of us may return. Like wars returned to former Yugoslavia.

Speaking about Serbia, what is the relationship, throughout history, with Serbs towards the Roma, and what should be done in 2015 for Serbia to improve the situation of the Roma people.

You know, when it comes to Serbia and Serbs, it was one of the most tolerant relationships, it must be known. In Greece, it was the same, and now it is, surprisingly, one of the most racist countries. But there is one thing: Serbia did not cure itself, and there lies the danger. If we have this economic situation today, this political awareness ... Our society is torn vertically and horizontally, and this is an ideal situation for a wild goose chase.

Where are Roma people in all of this?

I would say nowhere. We have Roma that are "in power". We have people on behalf of the poor and the Roma have a salary of four or five thousand a month. And of course, they longer see how Roma live, as many Serbian politicians do not see how Serbs live. I have previously as a deputy in Serbia gone to see how Serbs live. when go there, you see misery and destitution.

Foto: Marko Todorović

What do you advise young Roma, Roma intellectuals, to do to organize themselves?

They need to educate themselves politically. But these which play the role of an open society, with the beasts that have been released from their cages, they force them to take classes, and these people have no idea about anything. And this so-called Roma elite, as they call it, it is not worth a farthing. Because it is formed incorrectly. No mind, no soul and no heart. I saw them in Romania and was disgusted. I saw young Roma who thought of their own people worse than during Ceausescu. They see their people as meat, as the dough they use for their own success, for their own career.

So, without the emancipation of the society as a whole there is no emancipation of Roma?

Of course, it's always been that way. And Hannah Arendt brilliantly explained this in her theory of totalitarianism, in the case of the Jews. As long as there Antiziganism, it is proof that society is not democratic. A society that is not democratic, constantly needs an enemy.

Did you have problems in your career for being a Roma?

In the era before nationalism no, it was a different time. I never had a problem, even though they knew that I was Roma. But later, after that, when nationalism began to catch all the other roots, I became a persona non grata because I am a Roma. At the time when I was in Tanjug after the war, in 2004, there were some who wrote to the public prosecutor, "how is it possible that Rajko as a Roma be deputy editor of Tanjug?" During Milosevic, there was a known rule, under the table, nobody who is not a Serb can not work in the Ministry. Once an "observer of the situation," sent a letter, when I was in Tanjug, and Luke Mičeta, who was then the director of Tanjug, be invited for an interview. And asked him, "Is it true that Rajko is a Gypsy and that he was accepted." "Please," says Luka, "did you call me for this? Well, you're a racist! "I spat at him in the face in public. And he sought to have them sign why they called him. Now, unfortunately for all of us, another time has come. It is important that you are a Serb, a Muslim in Bosnia, and a Croat in Croatia...

Foto: Privatna arhiva

Should we turn to socialism or leave it, with all its weaknesses?

I think there was in fact no socialism anywhere. It was an illusion. And if it was built, it was built in countless different ways. In Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia ... Each had their own model of self-government. Self-management, it was a curtain behind which everyone could do what they want. It was certainly no socialism. Milosevic finally proved that the working class is a slave class. When they reached the workers of Rakovica, naked and barefoot, he said - march to work.

In Serbia there are various paternalists dealing with Roma issues...

Paternalism is understood as a theory in the works of philosophers and sociologists. This is another face of racism, as briefly said by Roland Barthes. Or as Hegel otherwise said, although he did not know the concept of paternalism, explaining it in the case of knowledge - "if someone wants to know what am I supposed to know he acts in this way - says," I've eaten instead of you, my stomach is full, and your stomach is empty. So, we'll split it in straight honor ". That's how a paternalist does business. On a much clever way. In Serbia, Hungary, Romania, there are so many paternalists. There, the Roma decade has won 12 billion euros. Of those 12 billion they took the biggest part of people who are not Roma. There is information that from non-governmental organizations that 16 billion came to Serbia. Where is that money?

Can Roma in Serbia, as numerous as they are, be politically organized in the right way?

They can, but the policy should have provided conditions. Roma must have the personnel, money, organization. Roma do not have those three elements. Without these three elements, organization is impossible. In addition, Roma are not militant. They are scattered throughout Serbia. And it is a disturbing element when talking about a political organization.

Foto: Tanjug/Marko Đoković

The matter of the highest importance to the issue of Roma in Serbia is education. Recently, the young teachers of the Romani language passed the examination, we received 23 young Roma teachers. How important is this and is this a step in the right direction for the Roma?

This is only the beginning. I know these young people, some of them do not speak the Romani language. Grammar of the Romani language is extremely difficult. It is a New Indian language with much finesse that do not exist in other languages. These categories, for example, which is are called a medium, do not exist in Serbian or any European language except Greek. Eight cases, plus one, called prepositive. Verbs, 36 letters ... Specific items in syntax and morphology. Some things, not to be too modest, I managed to explain - why there are morphemes or suffixes in singular and plural seemingly different but essentially the same ... And a number of things, a number of fundamental differences between Romani and Serbian ... All this makes it difficult for Roma children to learn Serbian. Roma children have great difficulty in learning Serbian and older Roma say the so-called pig-latin, the language used to ridicule. A Hungarian, who has no cases, Roma or Albanians have great difficulty when they learn Serbian.

(Telegraf.co.uk)